No locking. No starting. No fun.

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Frobisher
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No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by Frobisher » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:12 pm

So I get my Rover back after 4 weeks of waiting for all new brake lines to be installed. (and 7 bonus feet of fuel line somewhere). It runs great and does the expected overheating driving from Pgh to Beaver Falls once the air temp gets to 70 and the rpms get to 3000 at 65 mph. Never mind all that.

All of a sudden, it doesn't lock/unlock, and now it won't start. Mike H. came to my rescue the first time with the reset reminder. It worked once then dogged again. It's been off and on the past few days, but mostly off. No central locking and only sporadic starting. Is there a connection?

As always, thanks for the help.
Greg
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disco2newb
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by disco2newb » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:12 pm

Not overly familiar with the D1 security, but my D2 had similar issues. Finally discovered it was my rear door. The handle was not releasing fully (rusted) so it was not quite fully locking or something. So when I would come back and unlock, it would be in disabled mode. Get out, pry the handle free, shut the door, lock and unlock truck. Started right up. Couple cans of wd40 and all better. So not quite the same, but same end result. The lack of locking and not starting sound like your computer is confused. Perhaps the alarm is engaging but the signal to lock the doors isnt getting there?
Mark G
2001 Disco II SE - a work in progress

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Frobisher
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by Frobisher » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:54 am

So far, the door handles haven't been a real problem. The passenger side rear door lock occasionally sticks, but it had been starting fine despite that.

I checked all my fuses a second time and found the alarm fuse had blown, so I replaced it and it fired up several times in a row. Then later, no start despite a good fuse. The ignition relay clicks under the foot panel, so that seems to be working; I just get nothing turning over. I'm starting to think maybe the starter's gone south and everything else is just coincidental. That's a big maybe, but maybe. Also, I get no flashing LED indicating the alarm is armed. Everything lights up as it should upon start-up, but no cranking. To loosely paraphrase Dr. McCoy, "It's not dead Jim. It's had its brain sucked out."

Regardless, I have yet to get the doorlocks to engage again.
Greg
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by Frobisher » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:45 am

Additionally, what about this:

I noticed a few times this past week when it would idle fast at start-up and occasionally chug at start-up (the few times it turned over). Usually, it's a fairly smooth idler, and it was probably 4/6 times I started it recently. Could my problem be a bad distributor cap? There seem to be several variables at work here, so I'm trying to isolate them. Maybe I'm grasping at straws, but like most of you, I'd like to eliminate the easy ones first.
Greg
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by disco2newb » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:28 pm

Not exactly "easy" but I think I would start tracing some wires.
Mark G
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by Frobisher » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:49 pm

I've been intending to buy a multi-meter, so now seems like the right time. I'm just not sure which wires to start with.
Greg
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by dcarr1971 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:16 pm

Hmmm....IDK much about the 14cux trucks, but this sounds like something that could be any one of a number of things. Might want to look at the basics if you can eliminate the alarm...fuel, spark, and air. Check fuel pressure and take a look the fuel filter...the fact that it starts and runs tells you that spark and air shouldn't be an issue, but weak fuel pressure could explain some of the problems...

What kind of shape is your ECU in? I'd look at it to see if it is getting wet too...
Dave C
1997 Disco 1 LE <- Stock (?!?) because it may need a block
1999 Disco 2 <-- Not leaking, just marking my driveway as its own since June 2010!
1996 Disco 1 <-- Crazy Red (sold) :cry:

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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by Frobisher » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:00 pm

I'll check on the ECU some time this week when it's a little drier. Thanks for the tip.

The reason I think it's the security system or the starter is it's doing exactly what it did when we bought it. No turning over sound at all other than the relay clicking. That turned out to be a bad starter, so I put in a rebuilt one that it came with. I haven't had the time to check on that. If it were a fuel issue, wouldn't there at least be an attempt to turn over? When it doesn't turn on, there is absolutely no sound coming from the engine at all. Everything else looks and sounds right though.

Those darn locks are what throw me for a loop. Coincidental? Maybe, but it gives every indication of being locked out (or a bad starter...).

This winter, I had some trouble getting it started. I needed to pump the key a bit to get it to turn over. Another clue?
Greg
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by dcarr1971 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:57 am

Hmmm...Beats me. I agree that it sounds like you've got a couple issues here, making it tough to troubleshoot. Here's a couple things to consider:
- The inertia switch is securely connected and hasn't been tripped?
- Battery is fully charged and is holding a charge, with terminals clean and securely connected?

In addition to prior suggestions I'd recommend going through the RAVE (in case you don't know, or if someone reads this in the future with a similar problem, the RAVE is the LR Service Manual - you can download it at http://www.landroverresource.com/) to make sure you can locate all of the grounds and confirm that they're all intact and secure.

After that, assuming the problems persist, I'd suggest getting together with Mike H since his truck was so crazy for so long. (Mike's gold truck had some pretty psycho electrical glitches, which sounded very much like some of what you're describing.) His alarm was pretty obviously the issue most of the time though.

IDK if this is an alarm issue, but is your driver side power door lock working? If not, you might be able to pull the door skin, and try manually turning the alarm off by manipulating the actuator's plunger...effectively, you need to unlock the door 3x...this seemed to work with Mike's truck, but he had all the tell tale signs (e.g.- flashing hazard lights, horn (until he disconnected it), etc... <--Is your truck doing any of this when the engine quits or won't start?) that the alarm was the issue too though. Anyway, if it might be the alarm, and your driver side door lock actuator has failed, or the connectors in it are bad, you may have to replace it...if so, I'd see if Mike still has the one from his gold truck. (Worst case, Mike and I have a '94 D1 parts truck we can pull things from in a pinch.) If the lock actuator isn't the issue, I'd start looking for ways to disable the alarm altogether. (It can be done...there were instructions on DiscoWeb at one point...I may have linked to them in one of Mike's threads here, or he may have the links in messages I'd sent him on FB.)

Hopefully some of the above helps. To be completely honest, this is why I've avoided the 14cux trucks...Lucas electrical systems may have been simpler, but I've seen more craziness with them than the later GEMS trucks ('96 - '99 Disco 1's).

As always, I'll defer to Mark Love, Harold, or Bill F if they weigh in on this thread...they have a lot more experience with these older electrical systems...
Dave C
1997 Disco 1 LE <- Stock (?!?) because it may need a block
1999 Disco 2 <-- Not leaking, just marking my driveway as its own since June 2010!
1996 Disco 1 <-- Crazy Red (sold) :cry:

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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by jagspeed » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:16 pm

Fortunately, the alarm/disablement on the early trucks is pretty simple. Instead of shutting down fuel and spark, all it does is inhibit cranking. Very easy to bypass. Just apply +12V to the skinny wire going to the starter solenoid, and it will crank.

I've also succeeded in giving the alarm a lobotomy by just unplugging the driver's door lock actuator. Of course, you lose power locking, but you can't have everything in a 20-yr-old lowbucker. Doesn't work every time though, just ask Mike...
Sir Harold, Lord Jagspeed

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Frobisher
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by Frobisher » Thu May 01, 2014 10:26 pm

It may already be obvious to most, but Harold and Mike rock! I'm rolling once again with their guidance. I bypassed the alarm by mainlining the starter straight from the battery just like they advised. It fired right up. Bonus! Thanks to all for the suggestions; it turned out nice and easy after all.
Greg
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freelander02
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by freelander02 » Fri May 02, 2014 10:40 am

good times and good to hear.
John
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dcarr1971
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by dcarr1971 » Fri May 02, 2014 1:21 pm

freelander02 wrote:good times and good to hear.
x2 :)
Dave C
1997 Disco 1 LE <- Stock (?!?) because it may need a block
1999 Disco 2 <-- Not leaking, just marking my driveway as its own since June 2010!
1996 Disco 1 <-- Crazy Red (sold) :cry:

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Frobisher
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Re: No locking. No starting. No fun.

Post by Frobisher » Fri May 02, 2014 5:38 pm

Now, back to the overheating and I'll be ready to come out and play with you guys.
Greg
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