2004 D2 buying advise

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dcarr1971
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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by dcarr1971 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:59 pm

jagspeed wrote:The "3 amigos" refer to errors which are unrelated to engine function. As such, codes related to these faults are undetectable by generic OBD2 scanners. You will need a Rover-specific tool to diagnose problems with ABS, Hill Descent, or Traction control.

If the lights aren't lit, then there probably is not a problem (yet...)

If the amigos do show up, there is a tool available to diagnose/reset, and it's reasonably priced.
You will get a P1590 as either an active or pending code on the ECU when you have the 3-Amigos. (Believe me, I know this to be a fact...I've had more than my share of experience with the 3 Amigos... :cry: ) P1590 doesn't tell you what the problem is, just that there is one. That's when you have to pull out the ABS Amigo tool to read and reset the SLABS codes.

If you plan on off-roading the truck at all, you'll want to have an ABS Amigo...it's easily worth the investment in the time it can save you troubleshooting ABS faults that inevitably crop up.
Dave C
1999 Disco 2 <-- Not leaking, just marking my driveway as its own since June 2010!
1996 Disco 1 <-- Crazy Red

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conrad1468
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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by conrad1468 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:03 am

Hello guys,

I went took a look at the D2 and bought it. I crawled underneath the truck. NO RUST!! The frame still has the black paint from the factory. The drive shafts are shiny new. I did notice a little spot of rust on the front drive shaft. It must be from the drip mentioned before. No signs of off roading.

The engine didn't have any motors codes. Just a security code. It ends up one of the doors doesn't look with the key fob. I'm guessing that's the reason. All the electronics work.. the windows, sunroofs.. etc. Surprisingly no leaking roofs (yet!!) with sagging headliner. It's missing a bunch of little things in the interior I'll pick up along the way...

No 3 Amigos (another yet!!).. I did do a google search on 3 amigos... Holy moly there's a tons of forums about them for land rovers. Plus i saw they were suppose to release the 3 amigos 2 with chevy chase, martin short and steve martin... I guess it never happened... It would've been funny.

I picked it up in Meadville and drove it all the way back to Jeannette. About 120 miles with no problems. The cruise worked nice and gauges looked good.

I get home. The wife comes out and says "what's this leak?" Gall Dang it!!... It's antifreeze. I pop the hood and the over flow tank is squirting out fluid from the leak off hose. There's fluid air bubbles coming from the little rad hose. The hoses have no pressure... I'm thining great a blown head gasket.... So i figured I'd replace the res cap first then get ready to cry... :-( I went to North Hills Land Rover on my lunch break and picked up a new cap. I put it on and topped off the fluid last night. I drove around the hill streets of Greensburg to get the motor nice and hot. The cap held pressure and all is good...

Is there any signs to see if the head gaskets been changed? Plus it has green anitfreeze in... Not the Dexcool red antifreeze. Could they have flushed the system and changed the fluid over to green antifreeze? I'm still checking over the truck all the time worrying and keeping an eye on any changes...

Thank you guys!!
Cory and Sheri
04 Discovery 2 SE (soon to be rust bucket)
62 Series 2A Station Wagon (rust bucket)
99 Discovery I - sold

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dcarr1971
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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by dcarr1971 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:47 am

conrad1468 wrote:...The engine didn't have any motors codes. Just a security code. It ends up one of the doors doesn't look with the key fob. I'm guessing that's the reason. All the electronics work.. the windows, sunroofs.. etc. Surprisingly no leaking roofs (yet!!) with sagging headliner. It's missing a bunch of little things in the interior I'll pick up along the way...

No 3 Amigos (another yet!!).. I did do a google search on 3 amigos... Holy moly there's a tons of forums about them for land rovers. Plus i saw they were suppose to release the 3 amigos 2 with chevy chase, martin short and steve martin... I guess it never happened... It would've been funny....
The 3 Amigos will show up eventually. Here's the best tool for people like us reading the codes and then clearing them.
ABS Amigo Scanner: (Worth every penny!) http://www.rswsolutions.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=55
conrad1468 wrote:...I picked it up in Meadville and drove it all the way back to Jeannette. About 120 miles with no problems. The cruise worked nice and gauges looked good.

I get home. The wife comes out and says "what's this leak?" Gall Dang it!!... It's antifreeze. I pop the hood and the over flow tank is squirting out fluid from the leak off hose. There's fluid air bubbles coming from the little rad hose. The hoses have no pressure... I'm thining great a blown head gasket.... So i figured I'd replace the res cap first then get ready to cry... :-( I went to North Hills Land Rover on my lunch break and picked up a new cap. I put it on and topped off the fluid last night. I drove around the hill streets of Greensburg to get the motor nice and hot. The cap held pressure and all is good...

Is there any signs to see if the head gaskets been changed? Plus it has green anitfreeze in... Not the Dexcool red antifreeze. Could they have flushed the system and changed the fluid over to green antifreeze? I'm still checking over the truck all the time worrying and keeping an eye on any changes...

Thank you guys!!
Dexcool is crap. The green stuff is the way to go...stick with it.


Things to do now that you have it home.
- Look at the u-joints on the front drive shaft. Do they have grease zerks in them to allow you to grease them? If not, then you still have a stock LR drive shaft and need to start looking for a replacement front driveshaft. This may not be something that has to happen immediately, but if you notice a chirping coming from under the truck you need to stop driving it immediately.
- Did you say whether they provided service records with the truck? If not, then you probably need to complete a 60,000 mile "Major Service" so that you know how recently everything has been addressed. It can be a PITA, but on the up side, the coolant overflowing was the first step in flushing it (LOL). The 60k mi checklist is good, but you'll want to tune out as much of the author's B.S. as possible. Here: http://landroverforums.com/forum/discov ... ice-29020/
- Check the cooling system hoses. Make sure they aren't cracking.
- Check your viscous fan clutch to make sure it is still good. (If the engine is hot, spin the fan. It shouldn't spin freely when the engine is hot.)
- Check the transfer case shifter to make sure it shifts to Low and locks. (Lube whatever needs lubed if it doesn't move.)
- I'm sure I said this earlier, but I really like having a scanner with gauges so I can monitor the actual temperature. I encourage all D2 owners to have one handy. (BTW, If you get one, don't be alarmed by whatever operating temps you find. My experience knowing a lot of D2 owners and driving a number of different D2s is that they can be all over the place with the average operating temps varying from vehicle to vehicle. What you are watching for is a consistent temperature in any given conditions. i.e.- Driving down the parkway at 55-60, my truck runs at 188*. Under the same conditions, Bob's D2 (Nessie) runs at 201*. Both are OK. Sitting in traffic on a hot day, my engine temps might climb to 197* - 204*, but stabilize once the AC fans kick on. Again, this is OK. (It would be indicative of a problem with my truck if they didn't stabilize though.) Just remember to never trust the D2 temp gauge. It will never move off "normal" in any of the examples I've described.)

Now for one request...Could you please post a picture of your cooling fan, and measure the diameter? (Mine just exploded and I think I'm going to replace it with one from an '04, or maybe from a completely different application altogether.)
Dave C
1999 Disco 2 <-- Not leaking, just marking my driveway as its own since June 2010!
1996 Disco 1 <-- Crazy Red

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conrad1468
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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by conrad1468 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:04 pm

Thank you for the info. I thought the green anitfreeze was better then Dexcool. So I was happy to see it in the overflow.

- I looked at the front drive shaft. It has 1 grease fitting only. I looked at the drive shaft at the link in the previous post. The aftermarket one has a lot more grease fittings. I would say it's definately the original front shaft.
-It's a long list for 60K maintenance. I'll start working thru them. I don't have any service records besides a carfax report. So I'm going to guess and say it wasn't done. A lot of good info in the link.
-hoses look good. But i'll give them another look.
-I'm going to check the fan this evening. I didn't even think of that.
-I checked the trans shifter during the test drive. He let me take it by myself. So I could pull over in a dirt lot without any complaints. I couldn't believe the shifter moved. even the dash lights lite up. i shifted to low. then dif lock high. then back to high. I was like holy crap it worked!! haha.. It's funny how I get excited when something actually works...
-I placed my order for Ultra Gauge this morning. I need to know the numbers or it'll drive me nuts!!

No problem. I'll snap some pictures and measure it.

Thank you again!!
Cory and Sheri
04 Discovery 2 SE (soon to be rust bucket)
62 Series 2A Station Wagon (rust bucket)
99 Discovery I - sold

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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by conrad1468 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:50 pm

Well I went for a nice drive around to test out the fan clutch. I turned it before i left to feel how much resistance it had. Then after the drive it had the same resistance. So I got a new fan clutch from AutoZone. It say made in Korea but we'll see how it goes.

Here are some pictures of the fan and the new and old clutch. The fins are shorter on the new clutch. I'm not sure how it will effect the clutch.
The fan is 18 inch OD. The center hub is about 6 3/16 inch ID. The height is just about 3 inches. The ring along the outside is 1 3/4 wide. They must've put the ring on the fan to help the fins from breaking.

It's pretty neat to see the engine without the fan.
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Cory and Sheri
04 Discovery 2 SE (soon to be rust bucket)
62 Series 2A Station Wagon (rust bucket)
99 Discovery I - sold

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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by conrad1468 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:51 pm

Fan pictures.
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Cory and Sheri
04 Discovery 2 SE (soon to be rust bucket)
62 Series 2A Station Wagon (rust bucket)
99 Discovery I - sold

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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by conrad1468 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:53 pm

Fan Clutch comparison
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Cory and Sheri
04 Discovery 2 SE (soon to be rust bucket)
62 Series 2A Station Wagon (rust bucket)
99 Discovery I - sold

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dcarr1971
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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by dcarr1971 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:44 am

Thanks for the measurements on the fan.

It's interesting, the fan must have been replaced at some point. The one you have is from a '99-'02 Disco2, not an '03-'04. The '04 came with one that looks like the D1 fans. (i.e.- http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/PGG000080.cfm)

Either one should be fine for you...not something to worry about, just interesting. I've just installed a D1 fan on my '99 D2 to see if it holds up any better than my D2 fans. (I tend to be rough on everything on my truck. Unless you abuse it like I do, your fan should be OK.)
Dave C
1999 Disco 2 <-- Not leaking, just marking my driveway as its own since June 2010!
1996 Disco 1 <-- Crazy Red

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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by jagspeed » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:00 pm

dcarr1971 wrote: I tend to be rough on everything on my truck.
Yes, and the Pope tends to be Catholic...
Sir Harold, Lord Jagspeed

I know how to operate a vehicle

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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by conrad1468 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:02 am

I wouldn't be surprised if they did switch it out the fan. The rims don't match my spare tire. The rims should be a split spoke rim. These are solid spokes. I noticed the fan was different when I was looking up the fan clutch. It must be a popular swap. A few you tube videos I watched about the clutch the fans had the outside ring.

My ultra gauge came in yesterday. I'm going to find someplace to stick that. :-)
Cory and Sheri
04 Discovery 2 SE (soon to be rust bucket)
62 Series 2A Station Wagon (rust bucket)
99 Discovery I - sold

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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by RaithRover » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:56 pm

Get the window sucker thingy for the ultra gauge, it is long enough to put it right beside the instrument cluster. Its easy to monitor there and handy to get to the buttons on the back for suspending those pesky alarms.
I'd rather push my land Rover than drive a J**p!!

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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by conrad1468 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:14 pm

The suction cup mount would've been a good idea. I have the gauge laying on the CDL boot right now. i tucked the wire under the dash and it seem to be holding it in place. I plan on a better i location later.

OK... Here's what's going on. The wife has been driving around the D2 with the ultra gauge. She doesn't pay attention to it or care. Just as long as the truck runs... :-) So today we were doing some driving around town. I'm staring at the gauge from the passengers seat freaking out on the inside watching the numbers keep climbing and climbing... it finally peaked and stopped climbing at 221 degrees. We had a 2 bursts to 224 degree but went right back to 221 degrees. I'm guessing this is my bench mark temp?!?! I'll keep an eye out on it.

Do you guys think this is too high? Since my temp is about 20 degrees higher then the average stated earlier.

Besides the temp on the 1st page of the ultra gauge. What other "gauges" do you show on the front page. There are so many of them i'm not sure which to add.
Cory and Sheri
04 Discovery 2 SE (soon to be rust bucket)
62 Series 2A Station Wagon (rust bucket)
99 Discovery I - sold

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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by dcarr1971 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:17 am

conrad1468 wrote:The suction cup mount would've been a good idea. I have the gauge laying on the CDL boot right now. i tucked the wire under the dash and it seem to be holding it in place. I plan on a better i location later...

...Besides the temp on the 1st page of the ultra gauge. What other "gauges" do you show on the front page. There are so many of them i'm not sure which to add.
I also have RPM showing on my Ultra-Gauge along with a few other options. (I can't honestly tell you that I fully understand what the others are telling me...I was trying to monitor O2 sensor performance when I set it up...). Coolant Temp and RPM are the 2 main concerns that I use the gauge for at this point...

I have the gauge's display mounted to my dash just above the fog light switches with some Velcro...
conrad1468 wrote:...OK... Here's what's going on. The wife has been driving around the D2 with the ultra gauge. She doesn't pay attention to it or care. Just as long as the truck runs... :-) So today we were doing some driving around town. I'm staring at the gauge from the passengers seat freaking out on the inside watching the numbers keep climbing and climbing... it finally peaked and stopped climbing at 221 degrees. We had a 2 bursts to 224 degree but went right back to 221 degrees. I'm guessing this is my bench mark temp?!?! I'll keep an eye out on it.

Do you guys think this is too high? Since my temp is about 20 degrees higher then the average stated earlier...
IMO, 221 is a little warm for an average temp. I'd keep an eye on that. The good news sounds to be that the temps are stable...I've always figured that's more than half the battle with these trucks.

Here's some stuff to try, or at least look out for and consider. I've done all of the following at different times over the last few years...the order in which I've listed items below isn't necessarily the best for your situation, but answering 1-3 for yourself should be a good place to start:
  • 1. If you turn on the heater, what happens? The temps should go down and might possibly even stabilize at a lower temp...

    2. How do traffic conditions effect the temps? (i.e.- When you're sitting still, do the temps jump, then drop as soon as you pull out and stay on the gas? This may be a sign that the radiator isn't getting enough airflow.)

    3. Is your A/C fan working? When it kicks on it should make a big difference if you're sitting still. Here's the catch though, it usually doesn't kick on much once outside temps drop, so this might be a tough one to confirm. Personally I'm torn which is more effective...getting the A/C fan to kick on, or turning the heater up. Both seem to help, but I'm not sure you can have both on at once without making some custom mods...

    4. Once the truck is warmed up (i.e.- the Ultra-Gauge is showing the coolant temp is above ~200*), is the hose going into the top of the radiator hot and firm/hard? You should be able to compress it a little by squeezing it. How about the hoses coming out of the top of the thermostat? If you have access to one of those IR temp guns, how hot is the radiator at the inlet (should be close to same temp as top hose) and at the outlet? My radiator is cooling things from ~190 at the inlet down to ~160 at the outlet when the engine has been warmed up and then let sit still. (Note: You're trying to determine whether the thermostat is opening up...if it's stuck shut, you might not be getting enough coolant flowing through the radiator. It should be fully open by 194* if you have a stock t-stat. I run a 180* t-stat.)

    5. Are there any signs of coolant leaks near the throttle body heater plate? How about around the coolant reservoir? Are the top hoses (see #4) soft? I've heard of a couple cases where the reservoir started to fail, but only leaked when it got hot. Note: If the hoses aren't relatively firm/hard, then your cooling system might not be pressurizing enough. This could be due to a leak, or something as simple as a bad coolant reservoir cap.

    6. If you shine a light through the radiator from behind, can you see it out in front of the A/C condenser? My a/c condenser was so plugged with bugs and gunk that it was messing with the air flowing through to the radiator...I blew it out with an air gun and got a shocking amount of dirt out...that helped a lot. (Note: This one is really related to #2...)

    7. What RPM does your truck idle at when you have it fully warmed up and have driven it around? Does giving it a little gas cause the temp to drop? Mine can run a lot hotter in stop/go traffic. (i.e.- ~208-210*) It idles around 635 - 675 RPM when sitting stopped, in gear. (Note: This one is really related to #2...) Just giving it enough gas to bump the RPM up to ~735-775 is enough to drop the temp back into "normal" ranges.

    8. Are all of the radiator shrouds still in place? At low speeds, or when you're stopped, I think having the shrouds removed could hurt the performance of the radiator. I'm getting ready to replace my lower shroud next weekend to see if this helps...I'll let you know how it goes. (Note: Like #6 & #7, this one is really related to #2...)
Personally, I'd try to observe how it behaves for a few days to come up with answers to #1-#5 and to confirm that the temps really are stable under various different driving conditions. Then I'd start with the cooling system maintenance in that link that I sent in the earlier posts to make sure it's up to date to determine what impact it has...
Dave C
1999 Disco 2 <-- Not leaking, just marking my driveway as its own since June 2010!
1996 Disco 1 <-- Crazy Red

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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by conrad1468 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:34 pm

WOW!! Thank you again for the reply. So much info.

RPM that's a good one. I'll add it to the screen.

I did do some work to my cooling system over the weekend. It was driving me crazy not knowing the history of the truck and work done. I ordered some maintence items from Atlantic British. They were having a sale so I went for it. I ordered a T stat, trans filter kit and oil filter. The T stats are like a little kids play toy being a big bulky plastic thing. Which I thought was funny. At least I didn't have to take anything off the motor.
parts t stat trans.JPG
parts t stat trans.JPG (58.05 KiB) Viewed 1302 times
I did a coolant flush using Prestone Coolant Flush. I replaced the T stat and took it for a spin to clean out the system. I did the whole process draining, rinsing and refilling/bleeding the system. The whole process took all day waiting for the coolant to cool down. Anyways... I refilled the system with Prestone Extended life green coolant. It has no Phosphates which are terrible on aluminum. I used it in my VW Vanagon that hates Phosphate and eats the heads... I had a bunch left over from the time i flushed it's system and replaced T stat... I figure it should be good for a Rover. Anyways back to Rover stuff.. haha.

I'll try to answer the questions posted above for my own reference and observations since the flush and T stat. I agree 221 degrees and up didn't sound right. I even hit 230 degrees at one point.

1. The temp does go down and stablize with the heater on. If it's off the temp does rise but only a little and stablizes.

2. The temp does rise in town and when i'm doing a big hill climb. But the temp does actually drop back down after the hill climb and out of traffic.

3. The AC fan is working properly. It's kicked on quite a few times with old T stat and coolant. It hasn't since the flush.

4. I don't have a temp gun. Next time I'm at Harbor Frieght I'll pick one up. The hoses are not hard. They are a little squishy but not empty no pressure feeling. They have some squish to them.

5. Funny thing about the throttle body plate hoses. They aren't even hooked up. No hose going over to it. Nothing. No hoses at all around it. It looks like they've never been hooked up. I can't even find where they hook into the cooling system. The truck originally came from California. Maybe they didn't hook them up out West?!?! I don't know.

6. I'll take a look.

7. I'm going to add it to the Ultra Gauge and see what happens.

8. All cooling shrouds are on.

These are the new numbers.
Highway 194 degrees heat on.
around town 200 with heat on.
hill climb a little over 200.
Here's where the difference really happened. I turned off the heat after driving around town and hit the highway. The temps went straight down to the 194 degrees... The temp would almost never drop before. I have to say it's a maintence items that needed done. I don't even know how old the T stat was and the coolant.

Real world test.
The wife has been driving it around today. Some back road driving and a little light traffic. Since I was telling her about the engine temps and what i was working on. She actually looked at the gauge. She texted me this picture of the gauge. 206 degrees... Not bad. So it's working!!
ULTRA GAUGE AFTER flush and new t stat.JPG
ULTRA GAUGE AFTER flush and new t stat.JPG (54.31 KiB) Viewed 1302 times
Cory and Sheri
04 Discovery 2 SE (soon to be rust bucket)
62 Series 2A Station Wagon (rust bucket)
99 Discovery I - sold

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Re: 2004 D2 buying advise

Post by dcarr1971 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:03 pm

Well, you can't complain about those kinds of improvements. 8)

Coming in to winter you might want to look into reconnecting the throttle body heater, but I'm not sure whether it really gets cold enough here in PGH to be vital. (If I was you, I'd fix it...I just replaced mine myself 2 weeks ago.)

If you poke around a little, you will probably find that a "U" shaped adapter pipe has been fitted connecting the 2 hoses that should hook up to the t-body heater. If so, it (the heater) probably developed a leak and was by-passed...this is a common point of failure and subsequent trail side fix. (Note: I'd save the "U" shaped pipe in case you ever need it again...)

One of the lines that connects to the t-body heater runs over to the coolant reservoir, the other hose is this one: http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/PEH101540.cfm. (On a side note, I've replaced these hoses myself with the correct ones, but I know a number of guys who've simply used heater hose (IIRC 5/16s?) instead of the usual replacement parts for the line to the reservoir. Considering how cheap heater hose is, it's a change worth considering...)

Here is the replacement kit for the throttle body heater itself: (http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/MGM000010KG.cfm). It's an extremely easy repair and should take less than 45 minutes to complete.

Also, you may need to replace your t-body gasket when you pull it off to do the heater plate. If so, here's the replacement: http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/ERR6623.cfm
Dave C
1999 Disco 2 <-- Not leaking, just marking my driveway as its own since June 2010!
1996 Disco 1 <-- Crazy Red

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